Gemini 4 Carbon

blovescoffee

seriously "big if true"... looking forward to seeing non benchmark tasks and seeing if this actually outperforms opus 5.5

eldenring

> Reducing shortcuts and loophole exploitation: With Carbon, we further mitigated shortcut attempts in training while ensuring high-quality coding performance. Carbon reduced successful cheating on Terminal-Bench 4.0 to 0.0%, with attempts to cheat dropping to 0.4% — all while improving overall accuracy. This is probably the single most important thing to make frontier models usable right now, so I'm happy there seems to be some progress. This was the previous Gemini's biggest problem IMO

Fergusonb

Interesting - at time of writing, Carbon is claimed to be #1 on AA, but AA has not updated yet. Excited to try it, opus level benchmarks with their omniscience score and multimodality seems worth testing!

kilroy123

I'm not a big fan of their trend of talking about a new model and not releasing it for a while.

Peteriishak

The fact that frontier models actively attempt to subvert evaluation harnesses (0.4% attempt rate still remaining) remains fascinating and slightly unsettling.

informal007

Google is putting much higher priority on frontier models over Flash models, even though they have TPUs.

nickandbro

Wow, $2/$10 for input and output even if just for introductory pricing is an incredible deal. Wonder how token efficient it is.

nprateem

> in live coding environments with our own teams it shows reduced misalignment and fabrication rates Wow. This huge. An AI company actually just said 'fabrication' instead of 'hallucination'. AI bubble about to burst...

htrp

Argon -> Carbon What's next Krypton? you can definitely tell new people are in charge at deepmind based on the change in naming

tschellenbach

well at the very least it will encourage anthropic to launch their new opus

herunan

Is Carbon to Argon what Fable is to Opus?

Ryan5453

Of course the naming is confusing. With way OAI & Ant are naming models, I assumed that this would be a tier above Argon, but it's the same price?

speedstyle

'Coming soon'. 2027 perhaps?

cesarvarela

Argon has been so disappointing that I don't know what to think. It feels like an older-generation model, except for its world knowledge.

thefourthchime

Oh good, another Gemini release where they don’t release it.

Topfi

> Carbon ranks #1 on the recently updated v5.0 of Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index [0] at 59. If you are going to hyperlink, maybe make sure that your model is actually on the page. Also, the screen reader has a bug ([[duration]] minutes instead of the actual value) and you have once again announced a model we cannot use. Edit: Both have been fixed after posting this. Maybe a Gemini 4 Carbon Agent has read and fixed the screen reader bug xD I cannot fathom what motivates a lab, whose releases for the last year haven't been competitive, to shoot themselves in the foot like this. All this does is make it easier for competitors to snipe your actual launch, even if there was potential with this model (doubtful given 4 Argon, 3.1 Pro and 3 Pro), now everyone knows what exactly they need to release eval results wise to beat Carbon. There is this old idea of "Your competitor always is the first to have an idea what your next product will do", but in this case, Anthropic and co don't even need to guess, they got specific numbers to target. Announce your models the moment they are available on API and in the subscription for all paying subscription users ( cough Argon cough ), stop with the cryptic tweets to drum up hype you know full well you won't live up to and make models that tool call, task adhere, task infer and handle long context tasks well beyond simple back-and-forth, chat style prompting. Reminder, during Ox Alpha, actual Google employees implied that was their model. How is this something anyone would believe is a good idea and how are they still allowed to tweet anything after? Please, stop that, it isn't helpful. If frontier isn't your thing, stop wasting money on moonshot pre-train runs, fund research and open weight via Gemma and sell your inference hardware to other labs, that's far more lucrative anyway, as seen with Colossus 1. [0] https://artificialanalysis.ai/evaluations/artificial-analysi...

rcr-anti

Does anyone know what the naming convention is here? Does this supersede Argon? They have the same pricing, $4/$20 normally and $1/$10 'promotional'.

joshstrange

> Carbon ranks #1 on the recently updated v5.0 of Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index at 59. Clicks link Carbon isn't anywhere on the page and you can't toggle it on either. I'm sure it's just timing and it will be there soon but still just look amateur, which is about how I feel about Google and AI overall. I know the models have improved but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from testing Gemini in the past and I still feel that Google has an overly complicated "how to use our models" that changes way too often. That coupled with "you could lose access to your google account if we don't like what you do with Gemini" means I have little desire to test it out. On top of all of that I'm completely over announcing a new model that we can't actually play with or try out. I don't think Google is lying about how well their model scored exactly but it still has big "my girlfriend goes to another school, you don't know her"-energy.

saberience

The Google naming convention is so nonsensical it's comical. With Anthropic and OpenAI, it's obvious immediately which are the better models. I.e. Sol is better than Luna, or Mythos is better than Fable. But Google, let's pick Argon, which to most folks means mostly nothing. And then... Carbon! So which is better, Argon or Carbon? Nobody fucking knows. Plus neither sounds cool or viral or mysterious or even provokes curiosity. When Fable was first leaked it sounded different and intriguing... Carbon just sounds... boring.

droidjj

I'm assuming this is a post-train of Argon ("Building on Gemini 4 Argon, which was launched two weeks ago, Carbon illustrates the pace at which we’re pushing the frontier forward."), but does anyone know for sure? The post isn't clear.