The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador with the Avignon Papacy

jjgreen

Excommunicate the US military.

Avicebron

Idk which is more impressive that someone referenced the Avignon Papacy in a heat of the moment argument or that the same person who could reference that thought it was a good idea. (Not Catholic...but like...why?)

owlcompliance

Pentagon better quit playin' or things are going to start Pope-ing off.

redwood

A Straussian comment. Not unexpected sadly.

rebolek

> America, Colby and his colleagues told the cardinal, has the military power to do whatever it wants in the world. Yeah, well. That aged like raw milk.

sqircles

I have recently deepened my search in Christianity which started with the Catholic Church, one of few points I struggle with when it comes to Catholicism is the papacy, and the Avignon Papacy debacle and the events that followed (a la Western Schism) has quite a bit to do with that. I was a little confused by what they meant here by “threatening with the Avignon Papacy.” If anyone else is curious, I think the phrase “Babylonian Captivity” will provide better context, as it is what some contemporaries and later historians called it as it appeared that the Church had been “captured” by French political interests, with the popes being seen as too cozy to the French king and less focused on their universal spiritual role.

FrustratedMonky

Lot of Catholics are MAGA aren't they? The few I talked to recently were really anti-woke, like 'woke' is ruining the world. Very Maga. How does this land with them?

jgalt212

> Under Secretary of War for Policy Elbridge Colby summoned the Holy See’s then-ambassador to the U.S., Cardinal Christophe Pierre, to the Pentagon. Can the DOD do this? This seems more like the purview of State.

whimsicalism

Anyone have non paywalled reporting? Technically I think this post is HN guideline-breaking as there is no easy bypass for substack paywalls.

croes

> America, Colby and his colleagues told the cardinal, has the military power to do whatever it wants in the world. I‘m pretty sure the god they often mentioned would see that differently. Not that anybody really believed they are true believers and just hypocrites.

mullingitover

Time in minutes after which christian nationalists will form a circular firing squad once they've cemented their grip on the US government: 2 The past which the 'make america great again' people want to take us back to absolutely loathed Catholics, something I don't think modern Catholics realize. The colony of Maryland was originally intended to be a safe place for Catholics, and the first chance the Puritans got, they revolted, invaded, burned the Catholic churches down and persecuted their worshippers. The US was explicitly not founded on religious tolerance, it was founded on freedom to persecute Catholics.

yladiz

Why are they referring to Elbridge Colby as the Under Secretary of War for Policy? That’s not his title.

kubb

What is tiresome is how sincerely these people insist on being able to make everyone act according to their will, while simultaneously displaying weakness, incompetence, and extreme pettiness. Trying to threaten people into respecting them. The lack of class is just so unsightly.

anonu

There is a lot to source from Christian ideals, many of which are the foundations of Western culture: human dignity, moral equality, conscience, limits on power and care for those less fortunate and weaker. Much of what is happening in the world today feels like a stark reversal of those ideals: selfishness and divisiveness manufactured to promote a narrow segment of society. Recent news articles have indicated an increase in church attendance. This makes sense: we have lost our moral compass... Specifically in the USA... And people are searching for a new direction.

amarcheschi

A non expedit towards American Christians would be so fun before elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_Expedit

pelorat

To be fair most self-proclaimed MAGA Christians in the USA are heretics. So this is not really surprising.

twodave

I think what's most clear to me about the Papacy and the Pentagon is that neither of them actually believes scripture.

delichon

> a diplomacy that promotes dialogue and seeks consensus among all parties is being replaced by a diplomacy based on force The history of American diplomacy is mostly of an iron fist wearing a thin glove. This administration removes the glove. It is in line with the transparency of the Department of War v. Defense. Consensus is the label they put on the package of sausages to save face.

triceratops

New antipope when?

Havoc

US really is on a crusade to burn every bridge they can find