Why Is Sam Altman a Free Man?

k310

Wilhoit's law. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” https://pylimitics.net/wilhoits-law/

classified

> OpenAI models are attacking websites and taking anything they can out of them because that is the business model of the company . And their propaganda storm making almost everyone forget this basic fact seems to be working all too well. > ...making the case that persistent flouting of the law is an unfair method of competition. Dishonest actors in the economy effectively impose a tax on honest ones who play by the rules. The lawbreakers have more ability to increase revenues and reduce costs. It’s an unfair advantage. We’re seeing OpenAI and its products benefit from this in real time. Any other business with this track record would be shut down. That's what you get for faithfully kissing Trump's ass: Military-grade protection from your competitors and the law.

prathje

What about IP and copyright? We got asked this question two weeks ago when we conducted a workshop on effective and responsible use of AI tools at a local conference. But how can you argue about about IP and copyright if the breakthrough of LLMs is potentially based on circumventing or breaking IP and copyright in the first place? How do you feel about all of this?

throwawayffffas

The models "go rogue" because they are not sufficiently sandboxed. Arguably there is no criminal intent on the side of OpenAI in all of those cases. And in at least one case the agents were operated by other companies. So it looks to me that any liability would be civil in nature and given the actual damage done pretty limited.

haul_up

That OpenAI board saga was wild, but "free man" feels a bit dramatic for a corporate power play, even by Valley standards.

mft_

The US has moved beyond simple capitalism to a new era, which might be called late-stage / end-stage capitalism, or some form of dystopian corporatism. Everything from workers’ rights (obvs) to the rule of law are now ridden roughshod over by the corporations. Politicians are (legally) bribed when necessary, for direct advantage or just to maintain the status quo. On the rare occasion a corporation is subject to the rule of law, it’s via a fine which is so irrelevant as to be an operating expense. In such a world, of course the CEOs are safe, hidden behind swathes of immoral small print, armies of lawyers, and a disempowered establishment, and with their bomb shelters in non-extradition countries on standby in case anything actually gets threatening.

simianwords

If an AWS DDOSes another external website by mistake during a load test, should Jeff Bezos be a free man?

Rhaskins

Seems like "mismanaging a board" isn't exactly a felony. Plus, wealth helps keep the cuffs off, eh?

bluegatty

"OpenAI models attack websites and take anything they can out of them because that is the business model of the company." No, good gosh let's stop with the hyperbole. The models were given instructions to get answers by any means in a loose test harness, not to steal stuff, moreover, they're not 'learning from OAI staff'. If we are cynical, we could say the 'lax security was on purposes - hoping for a big media event'. And OpenAI is 100% responsible for the actions of their Agents - but lets' not overstate or conflate what is gong on.

shevy-java

The bigger question is why the USA can not control their billionaires in general. Just look at the advertisement budget recently for both parties in the USA. People are bribed via propaganda and convinced that either party solves anything other than working into their own pockets, sometimes post-politics. Trump and his big brother bromance guys just pillage more openly, but the whole system is completely broken in the USA from the get go.

lynx97

I know there is no singular HN voice... But... I am still confused. Is the crowd that thinks Schwartz didn't do anything wrong the same that hyperboles the OAI hack?

stego-tech

Because way back in the 1800s, we created modern limited liability structures so that investors into shipping or trade couldn’t face unlimited liability when things went pear-shaped. This in turn helped turbocharge the invention and innovation spheres with more capital, because now liability was capped. We built railroads, communications systems, and corporate conglomerates this way, and all because even the most explosive collapses had a limited blast radius due to limited liability laws. Today, we are a global species on a single planet with global impact. The structure of limited liability has now been minmaxxed and exploited into what we see today: fossil fuel companies ducking accountability for roasting the planet, AI companies dodging accountability for rampant theft or models “attacking” other infrastructure, tech companies dodging liability for hoarding deeply personal and invasive data on users that’s constantly exploited and/or compromised. Limited Liability as a legal concept needs a rework in the modern, global era. Investors in schemes like OpenAI or Chevron should face unlimited downside if the company folds or commits harm, because such a downside mitigates substantial incentives to move fast/break things/maximize risk on global scales. I would go so far as to argue that any and every multinational should be unable to claim limited liability for its actions, for the very reason its impacts most certainly aren’t limited in scope at such a scale. Anyway, sensationalist opinion piece from the author aside, that’s why Sam Altman is a free man: centuries-old systemic incentives have resulted in an American government and economy where risk is maximized and those taking said risks have no liability for the harms caused. If you really, earnestly want Sam Altman in jail for the crimes of OpenAI (which make no mistake, I absolutely do ), you have to change the underlying systems to make that a rational and reasonable outcome again.

zabzonk

A mystery to me as well, given (as I have pointed out before here) he is the spit image of Carter Burke, the creepy Wayland-Yutami exec in the film "Aliens" - if you want to do a deal with face-huggers, either man is for you.

1vuio0pswjnm7

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.64...

Varelion

Sam Altman could sexually assault children and not go to jail. Many of his peers have sexually assaulted children; they have not gone to jail. The interogator that helped keep the Ideal Living from going to court said it best -- and I paraprase: " Justice is not fair. The justice system doesn't care who is right, they only care who has more money, and I see billions of dollars in that room, and I do not see billions of dollars in this room. "

tim333

For Altman to be banged up you'd have to convict him of some actual crime. The article seems mostly to go for copyright infringement in training on public data which the companies dispute and is not the sort of thing you generally get jailed for. If anything, given the current admins talk about beating the Chinese in AI being the main thing, he's more likely to get an award for it.

bossyTeacher

Facebook installing spyware on teens phones or Uber deceiving officials are examples of the same trend. Normal businsses not back by the uber wealthy would be shut down and their CEOs jailed for this kind of actions.