The Price of Happiness (2024)

throw0101d

Harvard has been running longitudinal studies for several decades: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Study and their findings lean towards good relationships with family and friends are highly correlation with happiness, health, and many aspects of financial success. The released a book summarizing many results a few years ago: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61273746-the-good-life * https://archive.is/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive...

3pm

> What is the shape of the relationship between money and happiness, and what are its implications? 1. money != income. 2. Zip codes. 3. Age. 4. Social class. a) 65 year old professor living in Woodside, CA, with a net worth of $250,000K b) 35 year old HVAC business owner living in Fresno, CA, with a net worth of $2,000,000 First is poor, second is rich, but the study conflates both into the same bucket if they both make, say, $400K/yr

billfor

Was this AI written? It seems confusing to me but I'm not an economist. I think another way to look at happiness and money is that while money doesn't necessarily buy happiness, it avoids unhappiness. So you remove a negative factor -- not having money, which is a position nobody wants to be in. This is similar to your overall health, friends, love, etc.. It's not that you need tons of them , but not having any of them is a problem, especially health. "When you don't have any money, the problem is food. When you have money, it's sex. When you have both, it's health. If everything is simply jake, then you're frightened of death."

marcuskaz

Every Thursday, the ice cream man comes down our street. The price is usually around ~$20 to buy happiness for a family of 4.

bryanlarsen

related: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/contra-pritchard-on-liberal...

derbOac

I wonder how much any of those associations are with income per se versus career satisfaction per se? I imagine people who are making more money are probably a better fit for their career, feel more needed, and so forth and so on. I do imagine there's some relationship with income and accumulating more money per se, but I wonder how strong that relationship is once you remove the effects of career satisfaction independent of monetary gain, if such a thing is even possible. I guess it's hard for me to interpret these effects because there's so much going on in the background in terms of meeting life goals, feeling welcome where you're at and feeling like you're able to contribute what you're best at, and so forth and so on. The other thing is the ordinate axis is hard for me to make sense of. Like, in Figure 1, life satisfaction goes from say, 2.7 to 3.2 on a scale of 1 to 4? That seems like a relatively narrow range to me, even if it is statistically significant, and my guess is those dots are hiding a lot of variability. So maybe that's what people mean by diminishing returns? Not that there's no actual continuing increase, but that the increase is incredibly small on some absolute scale of happiness? It's hard to know what to make of the happiness numbers — if, say, consequential changes in some measure of happiness occur far below anything on that ordinate axis, none of these increases with income are of any practical significance.

m3kw9

Sometimes is a miscalculation why people are not happy with what they have, mostly because they see another bigger number.

hankbond

This may be a very tone deaf thing to say, but what really helps me is to just tell myself I am happy. It's certainly not fool-proof when faced with genuine problems, but I often find myself unhappy or annoyed for no particular reason. In those moments I just tell myself I have everything I need and life is great, and then it just feels better. That said all the findings that these studies seem to gravitate towards like close relationships also align with my experiences as being powerful effectors.

biscuits1

Money provides freedom, not happiness.

yboris

A classic paper worth a read: If money doesn't make you happy, then you probably aren't spending it right by Elizabeth Dunn, Daniel Gilbert, & Timothy D. Wilson https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10577... Includes explicit recommendations (even in the short abstract)!

DaveZale

Great analysis, but I would probably add that most (but not all) of those who end up with the six- and seven- figure salaries are smarter, more well-connected and socially adjusted, optimistic etc. Most _not_ all. And some are just really good bullshitters, of course. Ever been to a third world country and seen happy people who make just a couple hundred bucks a month, yet are very healthy and happy? I have. It's very life changing. Who are the historical figures that you revere the most? Did their positive influences upon your life originate from making and having money?

didgetmaster

It is difficult to know when you 'have enough' money because like death, you never know what is around the corner. Most of us earn, save, and spend money during our working lives so that we can retire comfortably; but it seems like there is no magic number for when we have arrived. How long will we live? What will our health be like? Would we like to travel? Leave the kids an inheritance? Give it away? All of these can influence the number. The secret to amassing wealth is to always live beneath your means; but don't forget to enjoy yourself as you make the journey towards retirement.

woopah

As always, correlation is not causation, so it's very possible that the people who tend to be happier also tend to maybe fit into society better and thus get higher paying jobs, not that you necessarily need to make X/year to be happier. It is still interesting to see how the actual numbers shake out though, especially the section on how the income quintile groups actually scale linearly instead of log linearly with reported happiness.

jongjong

Money definitely buys happiness for me. But I resent the amount of competition and how much bs I have to put up with to get it. It's definitely eroding the happiness. Especially when you engage in all the bs for years and still don't get much more money.

thelastgallon

People work hard for academic and career success. This will take decades. The plan is to make a lot of money with that success, have costly things/hobbies and derive happiness. It is driven by money as social status, which allows you to buy costly things and signal to others about your success. Instead, find joy in cheap hobbies and ignore the status markers. Just do things for yourself, not for others.

intellix

I think as long as you're not depressed because you don't have enough money I've seen people with much much less happier than extremely wealthy people. I know someone extremely wealthy and he continuously says that he's bored, is depressed yet wants to make more. Meanwhile I work daily with people on a normal/content wage and I feel like they're generally happier people? I know people really struggling financially and they're constantly depressed.

Nevermark

> a linear association between happiness and Log(income) implies that the marginal utility of additional dollars diminishes exponentially, though never mathematically plateaus And income (or wealth increase) can go up exponentially with wealth, so hitting the point where wealth just grows = linear increases in happiness relative to time?