The Mars Delusion

ck2

it's not just "fraught with risk" it's physically impossible with current technology for humans to survive a trip to Mars and live on the surface space really, really wants to kill life cosmic rays will kill humans before they even make it to Mars there is no current technology that shields from cosmic rays we should appreciate the earth greatly for its atmosphere and magnetosphere that shields us from them best emulation idea so far is to surround astronauts with several feet of water but we don't have the lift capacity for that much water weight the total time on the moon outside the capsule per person maximum was 22 hours the astronauts kept seeing bursts of light even with their eyes closed when NASA inspected the helmets there were microscopic groove where some had made it all the way through cosmic rays are physical particles traveling near the speed of light the bursts of light were their nerves and other cells being destroyed by the cosmic rays it was happening to their brains and CNS too mice exposed to simulated cosmic rays became slow and stupid

EA-3167

It’s an interesting article, but my advice is to skip the middleman and get a copy of the book discussed, ‘A City On Mars’. It’s entertaining, informative and well researched/cited. It’s also my go-to recommendation for people coming at this from a layperson/enthusiast perspective because the reasons why “colonize Mars anytime soon” is comical and an obvious lie once you dig in are complex. Unfortunately said reasons are multidisciplinary to the extreme so an overview in digestible form can be helpful for people who’ve been emotionally invested in this fantasy.

lapcat

Although fact checking is essential, I doubt that it will make a difference here. It clearly doesn’t make a difference in politics or religion. Much of the enthusiasm for Mars colonization is based on science fiction rather than science fact, childhood dreams not adult practicality. I think it’s important to hold Mars enthusiasts to specific timelines. What will humanity do in a hundred thousand years, or a million years, if it survives that long? Who knows. Humanity hasn’t even had agriculture for that long. The relevant question is, what will humanity do with regards to Mars within the coming decades? Let's be honest: nothing much. Elon Musk had made predictions about the future that have already passed and proven false. How many times will you allow him to kick the can down the road before you stop believing lies? Let’s also stop pretending that launching some rockets now will somehow prepare for the hundred-thousand-year future. The best way to get to that future is to preserve the only currently habitable ecosystem in the solar system, by immediately stopping pollution and global warming on Earth. Sadly, Musk is financially backing politicians who are doing the opposite.

cosmic_cheese

This topic is a bit of a sore spot for me. I would agree that any notion of a large martian settlement (much less a comfortable one that people actually want to live in) on any shorter timeframe is not realistic and that Mars cannot be treated as a "plan B" in the case of climate change making Earth uninhabitable, but total dismissal of the idea (as well as the idea that humans will forever [and potentially should ] be permanently Earth-bound) rubs me the wrong way. Yes, it's an unfathomably difficult and complex project that should not be in any way underestimated. Realistically, it will take many decades at minimum and probably in excess of a century. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted however, and it's not as if any of it will magically get easier in all the time spent not trying. This could wind up being a self-fulfilling prophecy sort of situation if it's allowed to be.

jmclnx

When I was young, I thought going to Mars or the moon would be awesome. But I wonder if even living or Mars is possible, even if water is found. I remember reading a while ago if water you drink distilled water and only distilled water long term, it will do you harm. I wonder if the same could apply to water on other planets ? IIRC, it has to do with minerals or something in water here.

jodrellblank

See also Idlewords’ essays “Why not Mars” and “The shape of a Mars mission” https://idlewords.com/2023/1/why_not_mars.htm https://idlewords.com/2025/02/the_shape_of_a_mars_mission.ht... ““”Twenty years of tinkering with the much simpler systems on the space station have brought them no closer to reliability. And yet to get a crew to Mars, we’d need to get this stuff working like a Swiss watch. Humanity does not need a billion dollar shit dehydrator that can work for three years in zero gravity, but a Mars mission can’t leave Earth without it.“”” and his article l’affair siloxane: https://mceglowski.substack.com/p/laffaire-siloxane And Charles Stross’ “The High Frontier Redux” (2007) http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the-high... “”” Mars is ... well, the phrase "tourist resort" springs to mind, and is promptly filed in the same corner as "Gobi desert". As Bruce Sterling has puts it: "I'll believe in people settling Mars at about the same time I see people settling the Gobi Desert. The Gobi Desert is about a thousand times as hospitable as Mars and five hundred times cheaper and easier to reach. Nobody ever writes "Gobi Desert Opera" because, well, it's just kind of plonkingly obvious that there's no good reason to go there and live.””””

ls612

“We choose to go to /s The Moon /r Mars / not because it is easy but because it is hard.” Kennedy was describing one of the most fundamental human ambitions; to try to achieve the impossible. Think pieces like this betray their fundamental lack of any ambition whatsoever

hackeraccount

I liked‘A City On Mars’. That said I think it didn't have the right sense of scale. The Weinersmith's offered up a bunch of reasons why the eponymous city would never be possible but I think the most important bit - which they would concede I think - is that it's not Never but rather not any time soon. 200 years? 300? Timescales like that are going to create solutions to all the problems they listed. It's why they spend time knocking people suggesting we'll have boots on the moon in 50 years. The modest stuff being done now - say setting up something equivalent to the various Antarctic bases on the moon seem like a reasonable step today towards something in the future.

gumby

I am extremely excited and supportive of the exploration of our solar system and beyond. But what’s with the obsession of sending humans ?? Robots already do the important space science (at least the data collection parts) and are well adapted to working in space, unlike humans who have to drag a chunk of Earth around with them everywhere. Robots are leaving the solar system, while no human would be interested in such a journey, no matter how interested they are in the data. Frankly, the people who act as if it’s important to have humans in space, as rather embarrassing. On the other hand, I’m perfectly supportive of human spaceflight for tourism and recreation. But let’s not pretend that humans should be involved in the important work out there, except from Earth. Never send a human to do a machine’s job.