Primate Is the Last Great Web Framework

fron

Why use light gray code highlighting on a light background? Most of the code blocks are unreadable due to this.

wduquette

We used to call this “middleware”, that which sits between the client and the server.

echoangle

Last or latest? I don’t get where the title comes from.

wredcoll

The idea of the web-router "owning" the database fills me with a visceral sense of loathing. Data is always the important part of any real program.

louiev

bro at least give your frameworks main website a non-ai UI lol

giraffe_lady

cgi bin with extra steps.

graypegg

I might be missing something here, but I'm struggling to understand why the concept of mixing up implementation details by request path is desirable. Maybe for colocating a legacy application with a new application that's slowly strangling it [0], but for a new application, this seems antithethical to using a framework in the first place. I can't say for sure why you liked Laravel, but I like Laravel/Rails/et.al. because I don't have to make decisions about the parts of the application that aren't unique to what I'm building. This just allows you to yak shave on a route-by-route basis? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangler_fig_pattern

petra

I think the next popular web framework would be something that would be optimized against llm code generation. So that the end result would be secure. correct. scalable(and scaling should be done by an llm).

tqwhite

In a related idea... https://jslightning.com Sort of a PHP-like, folder based web serving tool that executes Javascript. Very quick and fluid.

dkarl

> But web applications are not just pipelines of isolated tools. They are full of shared assumptions: request shapes, validation boundaries, session handling, rendering, routing, serialization, deployment targets. Some of those things are specific to web applications. Others are not. It's fine for web-specific logic to be tied to all of the shared assumptions of a web framework, but application logic should not be. As the architecture evolves, the application logic may need to be run in other architectural contexts: as a message consumer, inside an orchestration framework, etc. That's one of the most painful things about PHP. Entire businesses get built around business logic in PHP backends, and then when you need to execute that logic in a different architectural context, every line of it has to be rewritten, because it's too much work to extricate it from the context of serving web requests. If you are designing your framework to contain application logic, then it should look ahead to the possibility of that logic being used in a different architectural context. It should facilitate and encourage writing application logic that is agnostic of the web context. Otherwise you're encouraging people to repeat the mistake of PHP all over again.

evolve2k

Coming from Rails, which I’m sure informes part of the philosophy I really like this. One design value of Rails is “Convention over configuration”, or what I sometimes explain as smart defaults over having to decide everything. I see this is an area this project can help with; thought through folder and naming conventions; wrestling with issues at the seem between common tools. Making doing things the right way way (like database migrations) becomes the easiest way to do it; most of the time. A bundle of smart conventions and ways of working that cuts down yak shaving and sometimes solves arguments as the project can be; well we thought on this a lot more than most of you and we’ve gone with this approach to stick these together and if you only half care now you can get this done for free for your apps.

deepsun

I remember at the beginning Google didn't want to share their SOTA datacenter with public, considering it a market advantage. So instead of raw VMs they decided to promote the "framework" model, where all the seams are polished, under the name of Google App Engine. I remember we've been going through a security audit, and many of their questions were about ports security and server access -- well, we did not even have SSH access at all, and only 80/443 ports were accessible. It was a breeze. However, as market has shown, people really do want finer control, SSH root access, and custom ports. Along with many more fine-tuning. For example, GAE autoscaler did not reassign a request that triggered a new instance, waiting for it to start for 20s even though all requests completed within 200ms, so other workers were available, but the request waited for its own instance to wake up. So I'm skeptical of "seams hidden" approach, as over and over again I needed to tune that one hidden seam.

ligarota

Astro js can also handle multiple framework?! As astro islands

threethirtytwo

woah cool, I'll ask my agent if it likes this better. If so I'll have it start using it!

Kalanos

It's an MVC that handles realtime frontend without React?

gitpusher

The English language has no words (yet) to capture that special combination of nausea and embarrassment one feels when they commit in good faith to reading a long piece of prose... only to slowly realize the whole thing is AI generated. But I'm feeling it more and more often these days.

gavino

Honestly, why make it complicated. Just use Rails, and actually ship things.

turtlebits

Great frameworks have great CLI tooling and just work. Be opinionated and consistent. The fact that this supports multiple frontends and multiple runtimes is a hard no for me, already know that it's going to be a massive headache to debug.