Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

uberman

Fascinating read. I know nothing about any of this neither the parties involved nor Copperhead though I had heard of Graphene. To that end, I wish the response included a pre-amble for those like me who were not familiar with what was going on. I guess I could probably read the Wired article though. Still. good read and I loved the Q and A at the end.

ekjhgkejhgk

I know that GrapheneOS has almost a cult following on HN, but I'll make two comments. 1- GrapheneOS has a long history of long rants attacking people and projects. The leads will tell you that they're just correcting falsehoods etc, but a lot of companies/brands are target of falsehoods and don't bother to respond. I don't claim that GrapheneOS is wrong on anything they say, I'm just saying that these rants are a choice, and I see them as a red flag. 2- I once interacted with GrapheneOS on mastodon and I said something like the above. Something along the lines of "you know regardless of whether or not you're factually correct, these public attacks on other people companies are really bad for your image". Within 2 or 3 exchanged tweets they were threatening me with legal action. To me being a litigious project/person is an even bigger red flag than above. I have never in my life met someone who both lightly threatens legal action AND is an upstanding person. Just my opinion, don't get upset over it. EDIT: I just want to spell it out AGAIN - I don't claim that anything on their post is factually wrong, I have no idea.

ChrisArchitect

Wired article: They Built a Legendary Privacy Tool. Now They're Sworn Enemies https://www.wired.com/story/they-built-privacy-tool-graphene... ( https://archive.ph/pbJu9 )

gslepak

> Donaldson, now 42, is a self-taught hacker who never finished school, was briefly unhoused, and spent most of his twenties in a “positive hardcore punk band.” “It’s cool being smart,” he told me. “But if you can’t pay your bills, you’re a dumbass.” > The domain “Copperhead.co” was registered by Donaldson in 2014 and incorporated in 2015 under both Donaldson’s and Micay’s names. The idea was that shares would be split equally, with Donaldson as CEO and Micay as de facto chief technology officer. Their flagship product It sounds to me like some "business" characters I know well. They "handle the business" while someone else does 99% of the actual work, then ask to split 50/50. This didn't work out for Donaldson, and now he spends his time harassing Micay? Is that the gist or am I misreading?

Cortex5936

I love GrapheneOS and I use it daily for more than 2 years. However, and as Louis Rossmann pointed out in one of his videos, they really need to work on the "defensiveness" and "rants" of their communication. Even when they are 99% right most of the time, they sometimes don't come as mature and professional.

ForHackernews

Context: https://archive.is/pbJu9

R1shy

I think this micay guy is a little paranoid

maxo133

The fact that graphane is getting attacked speaks enough for it's relability. First in france now in Wired. I'm more concerned that Signal incorporated in US is having easy life.

Accacin

I personally can't understand why anyone bothers doing open source anything. This Micay guy spends so much time and does something hugely beneficial and we're arguing about how he responds to criticism? I'd rather direct and blunt rather than the weasel words and lies most companies put out.

Pxtl

I just realized that Lineage and Graphene are two separate projects.

rarez

The WIRED article may as well have been written by an unhinged AI as it hasn't been properly fact checked before being published.

ysnp

There are a lot of judgemental comments here criticising Daniel's character, responses and handling of what was likely a very trying and stressful period in their life. Barely any comments about the linked thread which is about Wired publishing an article that was extremely poorly researched after having misled GrapheneOS about the intention and content of what would be published. This seems like the sort of thing that should earn a disclaimer on future Wired articles as worthless and get them removed from RSS feeds/have subscriptions cancelled. Complete lack of integrity and respect for standards. Why did they not interview anyone else involved in the project or around at the time?

rrvsh

Frankly insane and speaks to the entitlement of many users that they are against Micay and GOS on this primarily because their online comms are abrasive; I'm used to this having seen the same from many in the Minecraft and Skyrim mods communities, but it still stands saying: You are not owed ANYTHING from a free software developer. They can say anything they want to you and revoke the software at any point or anything they wish - they are providing the software for purely no reason but they want to. If Micay wants to be rude on main he has absolutely every right to do so; if you don't like it, don't use his software. He's not a steward or paragon of virtue just because he has a popular software project, and it's extremely easy to stand on a soapbox and say "If I was in that position, I'd be so much better!" To all the detractors in this thread, I beg you: go make software and give back instead. P.S. I avoided making any statements about what I personally think about Micay and the GOS team's behaviour above because I don't use it and have never looked into it before reading this article, but from looking at the comments, the WIRED article, the forum thread linked in this post, and some cursory research, it just seems like they are a popular software project that is at odds with many powerful actors with obvious motivations against their existence and popularity - if they are constantly combative online instead of being friendly, don't you think part or all of it may be because they have to defend themselves against attacks instead of having the freedom to be friendly like say SQLite/FFMPEG/Rust/other free software projects? I'm admittedly new to HN but this entitlement and refusal to empathise with the people giving you free shit seems insanely out of character

joemazerino

Decent article, albeit drawn out. Much ground to cover it seems. Having been on the receiving end of Micay's online rants none of this is surprising. He's said that my account was harassing him here since 2018 but I made the account in 2020 and speak my mind. It's telling that GrapheneOS has improved its PR stance and not let strcat/Micay respond to threads personally now. What is surprising is that a large tech magazine picked up the CopperheadOS/GrapheneOS drama this late to the game. Hopefully the HN mods will unflag the astroturfing campaign done by GrapheneOS here to allow a good healthy discussion.

mapotofu

It seems very plausible to me that there is a vested interest in seeding drama and chaos into the reputation of GOS. Why wouldn’t there be? Especially when it seems there’s an easy way to trigger Micay, and there are cottage industries online specializing in exactly this sort of thing. I get the sense a lot of people care about this project and care about defending it but good luck against the propaganda and bullshit like this that comes along with it. I really enjoy GOS and used it as a daily driver for ~3 years