Netherlands bracing for potentially devastating US sanctions against the ICC

chain-xvi

the united states is a threat to the world.

gspr

It's better that they rip the badaid off like this. The EU cannot stand by if all of the ICC is hit. It's gonna be painful for all of us in Europe for a little while, but this is far better than letting any more single individuals have their lives ruined for doing their (legal!) jobs for European institutions. This has already happened too many times, and is truly shameful – let this conflict rage for real now, so that it's a burden we all have to bear together!

petcat

> "The Trump Administration has been clear: the International Criminal Court is a corrupt and fatally politicized supranational court that has maliciously abused its authority and exceeded its mandate," Secretary of State Marco Rubio said in a statement. I've never really thought about the ICC at all other than just knowing that the few countries that possess both hard power (military) and soft power (economic) have refused to join or recognize the ICC since its inception in 2002. Why would China and USA both not recognize it? It seems like they're the only ones that really matter.

jaapz

Can anyone explain to me why the trump administration hates the ICC so much?

sagarm

This will result in an erosion of the effectiveness of US sanctions.

guytv

Israeli here. Just a reminder: the ICC was founded in the aftermath of WWII, when Jews had no voice and no one fighting for them. Israel’s finance minister, one of the most senior ministers in the government: “No one in the world will allow us to starve two million civilians to death, even though it may be justified and moral, until our hostages are returned.” Israel’s defense minister: “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed. We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly.” Someone should prosecute those bastards.

47282847

Which country besides the US has the audacity to think it has extraterritorial rights to interfere with legal practices elsewhere? To me, it is obvious that this is violent behavior and will lead to defensive action by others, and more violence, not more peace. If it was the “hard power” it claims, what is it that makes “it” so afraid? To me, it is fairly obvious that this is how a threatened being behaves, in “childish ways”, before it fully falls apart.

mentalgear

It's really sad seeing the international order, erected primarily by the US as a driving force after WW2, now being torn down by the current US administration to the detriment not only of global safety but also the US itself. Giving up the best soft-power levers they had in an attempt to replace them with coarse, obvious and ineffective hard-power beat-sticks is not only foolish but history shows never works well or long term.

impossiblefork

There's been a lot of stuff bringing us back to the 2002-2008 era, with the occupation of Afghanistan, etc., now that the Brits are finally investigating the SAS men who murdered people in their beds etc., so I've been reading about the old El-Masri case and the CIA black sites in Europe, and the use of state secrets privilege to block El-Masri's lawsuit in the US, the Polish unwillingness to seriously investigate. The only two good things are I think the ECtHR's willingness to demand an investigation, and one can question whether the CoM of the CoE have done their job in ensuring implementation, but they're at least regularly checking whether there are implementation attempts. But what struck me was the endless deference of the ICC. They've limited their Afghanistan investigation to Afghani perpetrators even though they have access to vast numbers of Europeans with information about the black sites and the investigation of these things is even more tractable than investigating things in Afghanistan, and I think it's this deference that is the ICC's problem. The ICC actually has powers sufficient to deal with the sanctions completely, with no need for aid from European states in any regard. It's to the point where anyone participating in anything affecting the ICC's ability to do its job can be ordered arrested and confined indefinitely. The ICC can literally order the arrest of the workforce of an entire bank if it participates in anything having to do with retaliation against the ICC. The only thing preventing milder things like ordering the arrest of the CEO and board is the ICC's insane deference. They can also apply these things to the American political leadership who have passed the sanctions. So I really don't understand the Americans. The ICC is doing exactly what they want. They're not even subpoenaing Europeans who sit right here with knowledge about the black sites and torture, even under intense criticism from victims who are of course pushing for investigation. The article really misunderstands what sort of powers the ICC has. The ICC doesn't need the blocking statute to end enforcement of sanctions, they can order the arrest and indefinite detainment of anyone participating in retaliation against the court.

Aeolun

The US has really degenerated into a strongman state hasn’t it? This is more like what they tell us to expect from China, but what we actually get from the US.

pbiggar

This will further push the EU towards sovereignty, not just on a tech front but through the financial sector. Similar to their sanctions of the Iranian airlines - these are attacks on civilian and human rights infrastructure that other countries actually find value and alignment with. Probably (hopefully) we'll look back on this as the start of the end of US soft influence.

poisonborz

Almost none of the US's recent actions are new or a "turning point". All what the Trump government changed was to throw the gloves off and make it blatantly, stupidly obvious, and to act haphazardly and without thorough preparation. ICC, embrace-extinguishing EU, exploiting Middle East, South America as colonies - these are not 180 turns, just playing the same game faster and dumber. Notable exceptions may be Canada or Greenland, but even there one might suspect they just surfaced a previously well disguised agenda.

singularity2001

It's a big mistake that they never dragged those responsible for the Gulf Wars to the ICC. At least formally. I think Italy formally declared some U.S. military as war criminals?

son_of_a_star

As a reminder, 125 countries are a member of the ICC. Here is a partial list of countries not in the ICC: - USA - Israel (active war) - Russia (active war) - Iran (active war) - signed but not ratified - Sudan(active war) - signed but not ratified - Yemen (active war) - signed but not ratified - Saudi Arabia (active war) - North Korea (passive war) - India (recent war) - Pakistan (recent war) - Vietnam - Myanmar - Ethiopia - China - Turkey - Qatar

ShadowOfThePit

The ICC is a waste of money and resources, and pure bullshits. It has barely achieved anything except sentencing 23 people for an absurdly low number of years. Commit 28 crimes against humanity? To jail! For 12 years! https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3070nlqnq3o Enlist child soldiers? 14 years! - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Lubanga_Dyilo > Champions of the court say it deters would-be war criminals, bolsters the rule of law, and offers justice to victims of atrocities. https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/role-icc lol. lmao. Try to change my mind if you want.

penguin_booze

This fuckery of US sanctions should end. Nations should stop enslaving themselves to the US.