German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

The_suffocated

Not all men, but all men over 17 and under the age of 45. This still seems draconian, though.

klausa

That seems more “oh we fucked up and didn’t realize our changes to the law imply this” than “Germany forces men to request permission to leave”.

i_have_to_speak

Are homo sapiens the only species that organizes themselves into tribes and work towards the destruction of other tribes of same species?

keysersoze33

Being 46 (and quite an active 46 year old, just finished a Skitour), am curious why the cutoff for these things tends to be 45?

randomNumber7

I kind of predicted this a long time ago. They way germany is currently run they will need to act like the DDR and force their people to stay. Otherwise everyone with good education will leave.

Jamesbeam

This headline is kind of misleading. First of all, there is no process yet for exactly requesting permission, secondly, the army already said they will not enforce the rule unless the Parliament declares combat readiness is necessary, and lastly, there is no punishment for not asking permission at this point in time. And to be completely honest, if more people made use of registering for the damn ELEFAND emergency contact list, this rule wouldn’t be necessary in the first place. So, men are kind of responsible for this themselves by being lazy. I had to help exfil Germans in Kabul when the US decided to pull out without telling all of their partners in time. Everyone wanted to be rescued, but you have no idea how many German idiots travel to foreign countries, not even taking five minutes to let their own government know how to reach them and where they went in case of an emergency. It’s super fun to drive around Kabul and pick up 55 years old complaining male Germans yelling at me because I told them I transport people, not their fucking luggage. Two even sued me afterwards for leaving their expensive camera equipment behind. A dozen complaints about my behavior. Sometimes it’s really annoying to protect the average citizen. Luckily, I understand that it is an extreme situation for them. Just like some people sue nurses after they broke their ribs reviving their dead ass. It’s a good thing all these idiots now have to ask for permission in the future and likely need to leave the data necessary so it’s known where they are, for how long and how to reach them.

raffael_de

I'm surprised this news is stalling at 24 points. Everybody has to understand that even if this law isn't impacting you; this is a signal in the noise. Germany is a major part of the industrial military complex together with the US and still the 3rd largest economy in the world after US and China. This is meaningful as it sets course for war in Europe. And for Germans it means soon to be enforced limitations of civil rights. That fits right in with the surveillance crap that is being attempted to roll out in EU (which is effectively headed and controlled by Germany).

mcculley

If the U.S. implements a draft, would we first implement exit visas?

haukem

The article 3 of the Wehrpflichtgesetzes says this: > (2) Männliche Personen haben nach Vollendung des 17. Lebensjahres eine Genehmigung des zuständigen Karrierecenters der Bundeswehr einzuholen, wenn sie die Bundesrepublik Deutschland länger als drei Monate verlassen wollen, ohne dass die Voraussetzungen des § 1 Absatz 2 bereits vorliegen. Das Gleiche gilt, wenn sie über einen genehmigten Zeitraum hinaus außerhalb der Bundesrepublik Deutschland verbleiben wollen oder einen nicht genehmigungspflichtigen Aufenthalt außerhalb der Bundesrepublik Deutschland über drei Monate ausdehnen wollen. Die Genehmigung ist für den Zeitraum zu erteilen, in dem die männliche Person für eine Einberufung zum Wehrdienst nicht heransteht. Über diesen Zeitraum hinaus ist sie zu erteilen, soweit die Versagung für die männliche Person eine besondere – im Bereitschafts-, Spannungs- oder Verteidigungsfall eine unzumutbare – Härte bedeuten würde; § 12 Absatz 6 ist entsprechend anzuwenden. Das Bundesministerium der Verteidigung kann Ausnahmen von der Genehmigungspflicht zulassen. See: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/wehrpflg/__3.html This was not changed. The article 3 of the Wehrpflichtgesetzes was previously only active in a war or close to war situation (Spannungs- oder Verteidigungsfall). Article 2 said this before: > § 2 Geltung der folgenden Vorschriften > Die §§ 3 bis 53 gelten im Spannungs- oder Verteidigungsfall. See: https://github.com/bundestag/gesetze/blob/master/w/wehrpflg/... Now it says this: > § 2 Anwendung dieses Gesetzes > (1) Die nachfolgenden Vorschriften gelten nach Maßgabe der folgenden Absätze. > (2) Die §§ 3 bis 52 gelten im Spannungs- oder Verteidigungsfall. > (3) Außerhalb des Spannungs- oder Verteidigungsfalls gelten die §§ 3, 8a bis 20b, 25, 32 bis 35, 44 und 45. > (4) Die §§ 15a und 16 sind nur auf Betroffene anzuwenden, die nach dem 31. Dezember 2007 geboren sind. Satz 1 gilt nicht im Spannungs- oder Verteidigungsfall. See: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/wehrpflg/__2.html This law changed it: https://www.recht.bund.de/bgbl/1/2025/370/VO Is the a up to date git repository with all German law changes? The one I found was last updated 4 years ago.

cocodill

Busification, when?

askonomm

So are you also not allowed to move away or? I find it pretty messed up that your life as a man is literally owned by the government.

webnrrd2k

Press gangs are back

legitster

> While the law requires men to request the permit, the spokesperson clarified, it also obliges the military career center to issue it, if "no specific military service is expected during the period in question.” > "Since military service under current law is based exclusively on voluntary participation, such permissions must generally be granted,” the official added. > When asked, the ministry spokesperson pointed out that "the regulation was already in place during the Cold War and had no practical relevance; in particular, there are no penalties for violating it.”

coldtea

"Free world"

jsiepkes

So it's a cold war law which is still in place but not being enforced. Same for conscription laws in the Netherlands, which are also still active. They just don't ask anyone to report for conscription. It was even expanded a couple of years before the Ukraine war to also include women.

einpoklum

I remember people in Germany who had to go underground to evade the draft, even as recently as the early 2000s. Here's a story from 2002 about how the supreme court there upheld the legality of a military draft: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-apr-11-mn-37321... anyway, if you refused to be drafted and did not want to go to jail, you had to more-or-less stop using any government services, rent with roommates, avoid using a credit card etc. until you've reached some age, and then you could emerge again because the duty to serve expires at that certain (not very high) age. It was cuh-razy.

mikrl

Posted previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47626116

cookiengineer

Note that this law still exists because it requires a constitutional change to include women (well, or to be abandoned). A constitutional change of the Grundgesetzbuch requires a 2/3rd majority in the parliament. That almost never happens these days, especially with green/left/social party being not really united anymore in their votes and the conservatives allying themselves with the far right. The last time Germany had that much of a majority, it was under Bundeskanzler Kohl and Schroeder if I remember correctly. So like ~25 years ago. Bundestag seats (from 2002 onwards): 2002 (15): https://www.nls.niedersachsen.de/html/pressemitteilungen1.ht... 2005 (16): https://www.nls.niedersachsen.de/html/presse_lwl_bw2005.html 2008 (17): https://www.bundestag.de/parlament/plenum/sitzverteilung17-2... 2013 (18): https://www.bundestag.de/webarchiv/textarchiv/2013/sitzvert_... 2017 (19): https://www.bundestag.de/278118-278118 2020 (20): https://web.archive.org/web/20211102103524/https://www.bunde... (couldn't find an article on the Bundestag website, got deleted. Web archive version is a little broken) 2025 (21): https://www.bundestag.de/parlament/plenum/sitzverteilung

sunshine-o

Those governments are totally inept. For decades they have alienated their own native population, especially men. And now they want to conscript them as their approval ratings are around 15℅. Think about it, Trump approval rating fell sharply but is still at about 40%. Merz is at 15% and most of those 15% are probably boomers in a nursing home. He is probably closer to 0% within the demographic he is trying to conscript. The only war you're gonna get in Europe is a civil war.

diath

Why does it exclude women? War is not just physical strength, but also logistics, operating vehicles, operating drones, nursing, and so on. All tasks that women are well capable of.