Decisions API is in public beta

Imustaskforhelp

This rather didn't take long for OAI to create*, I remember people giving opinions and discussions that it won't take too long and that openAI should do it[0], so looks like they were right. Interesting to see where all this leads us and if other major labs follow suit Edit: decisions voice looks really interesting as well[1] [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49802161 : OpenAI is well positioned to fast-follow Jev [1]: https://developers.openai.com/api/docs/guides/decisions-voic...

lab14

How is the pricing vs Jev?

esafak

You knew it was going to happen! Benchmarks or it didn't happen.

peterson_lock

Can we use this through subscription?

mritchie712

it already supports image inputs, which was the first big gap I found in Jev.

mohsen1

Since it is fast and understand images, I wonder if it can play video games. I have a harness setup for the LLM play EA FC but even the fastest LLMs are too slow for it. I need to try this with Decisions API

dvt

I genuinely do not understand why anyone would pay OpenAI for this. Running something comparable to Jev is pretty trivial. The whole point of paying for ChatGPT is because OpenAI has a bunch of warehouses that can run a zillion-parameter model. Running a decision model is way easier and much cheaper. Are they really just trying to capitalize on the hype here? It feels like they really have absolutely zero moat.

TSiege

The response to Jev should be the nail in the coffin over whether or not the AI business is a commodity market. Out of no where Jev appeared as the next round of the price wars. Jev showed the value of System One models. A fast yes/no/confidence score not only is cheaper but also often all people want. Open source versions flood hugging face and now the big players are giving up a potentially big driver of output tokens to keep customers and race to the bottom price wise. If I were OpenAI or Anthropic I’d be racing to make their products as sticky as possible bc ppl will flock to what’s cheapest otherwise.

simonw

curl https://api.openai.com/v1/decisions \ -H "Authorization: Bearer $(llm keys get openai)" \ -H "Content-Type: application/json" \ --data ' { "model": "gpt-6-luna", "input": [{ "role": "user", "content": [ {"type": "input_text", "text": "I am angry about the new product feature"} ] }], "questions": [{ "type": "predicate", "name": "complaint", "instructions": "Is this a complaint?" }, { "type": "predicate", "name": "compliment", "instructions": "Is this a compliment?" }] }' Returned: { "model": "gpt-6-luna", "answers": [ { "type": "predicate", "name": "complaint", "probability": 0.91 }, { "type": "predicate", "name": "compliment", "probability": 0.06 } ], "usage": { "input_tokens": 310, "input_tokens_details": { "cached_tokens": 0, "cache_write_tokens": 0 }, "output_tokens": 0, "output_tokens_details": { "reasoning_tokens": 0 }, "total_tokens": 310 } } That https://api.openai.com/v1/decisions endpoint is notable because usually when OpenAI define an endpoint like that it ends up as a defecto standard for other providers. (I turned this all into a new llm plugin: https://github.com/simonw/llm-openai-decisions )

sidcool

Jev really shook up the industry. This seems obvious in hindsight

Topfi

Ran my decisions evals (still rudimentary, less than 600 calls (UI component selection, chat charting, tag selection, PKM stuff)) on this via OpenRouter against Jev and Mercury Decide. Jev because it has replaced my mt0 efforts by sheer force of affordability (more importantly, the limits running on a MacBook Neo bring even after vocab pruning and quant insanity) and Mercury Decide because I do like dLLM efforts (and I'd like to use fewer model providers if possible). Preliminary of course, but seems to be slower than Jev and similar to Mercury Decides latency, though not in growing linearly with the amount of input (346ms p50 and 860ms p95, (Mercury Decide also had some extremes up to 1,3s that were around 800ms today, likely preview related, it scaled far more consistently with size)), less "confidence" concerning my ambiguous UI component and response shape specific tasks (have very specific use cases for these models which Luna often fails to meet at 0.6 and lower), lead to a few failed calls which neither competitor had (4 vs 0 for both) and measured more expensive than Jev to boot by a factor of 3,1 times on average (Mercury Decide pricing I think is still unknown so no numbers there). Basically slower, more expensive and less capable than Jev, roughly on par with Mercury Decide (provided, in my insane set of use cases and requirements that are a PKM focused Firefox fork with multiple infinite canvas using decision models to improve information synthesis from multiple sources). Seems a bit undercooked overall and I'd rather frontier-labs don't jump on bandwagons until they can offer something competitive in price, performance or both. In fairness, though, I have yet to test image input, maybe that makes all the difference. Also, again, mine is unlikely to reflect everyones use case, so interested in seeing others results. Didn't comment at the time, but having read up on Devday after the fact, there seems to have been a lot of that going around. Notion and GDocs, Jev, Muse, most seems to have been cloned from existing competitors (and despite infinite, ultrafast, ultra code tokens with unsandboxed Mega Astra not that amazing to boot). Prefer less announcements, but focused and at a higher quality. Considering ChatGPT Atlas (their Chromium based browser) and its insanely fast death, I'd be skeptical to put much into any of these even if they were in some way an improvement over what is out there. Maybe focus on a fresh pre-train and some sandboxing improvements.

stillatit

One difference between Decisions and Jev (for now) seems to be that Decisions can take image inputs, which is a pretty common need.

OutOfHere

v3.26.0 of the openai Python SDK covers its use. Those already using the SDK don't need to make explicit HTTP calls.

mrkn1

If you rather run your decision model on your CPU, check gutsy [0] [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49976996

swader999

I wonder why the decision routing isn't just integrated into all models in addition to this stand alone.

jasonjmcghee

Different APIs for different things reminds me of the early auto-complete vs instruction apis. Will this get folded into models / post training pipelines at some point and make them better at calibrated outputs?

waterTanuki

> The tulip became a luxury item and many varieties were introduced. The varieties were classified and the most sought-after, prized tulips were the streaked tulips, especially yellow or white streaks on a red or purple background. These flame-like tulips were highly sought after. Interestingly, the streaks or “flames” of the tulip petals were caused by a virus. The virus is the tulip breaking virus, or tulip mosaic virus. Source: https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/tulip_mania_the_history_of_the... What's old is new.

MiroslavPokorny

What value is there in knowing if a can has a dent ?

nico

Just going to drop this here: https://jeffyclassify.com/ Open source classifier models you can run and train locally on CPU

ashu1461

If we compare this with using the older solution of writing a prompt to find out the answer of the classification - Cost : It is the same for both scenarios $0.10 per 1M tokens - Speed : decisions is 10x faster than responses API - Quality : I guess if we compare with luna which is a pretty good model it itself, both will be at par So essentially it has to do more with speed vs any other factor.