Canada losing top talent as workers head to the U.S.

windowshopping

Is this new? I thought this had been the case for decades.

blindriver

I'm sorry but is this an article from the late 1990s? I'm also from Canada and I know tons of Canadians that have come here since the 90s. I even known immigrants to Canada from other countries (mainly China and India) that came to the US via Canada, using the TN1 or H1B visas after getting their Canadian citizenships. The biggest problem Canada has is that any moderately successful tech worker is going to be dead-set on trying to get into the US because the Canadian tech scene can't compare based on base pay, annual bonus, starting equity or refreshers, etc. I make more money than all my friends combined. One of my friends is a teacher in Toronto and my annual bonus is more than his entire yearly salary. I'm sure a lot of Canadian tech workers would repatriate and foreign workers would immigrate to Canada if they could lower taxes across the board and make life easier for tech companies and workers. There's literally trillions of dollars in tech ideas that could have been created in Canada but all of the founders left for the US.

notatoad

>ROGER: Okay, how does this compare to the ’90s when we saw a brain drain then? Is it larger? Different sectors? >FRANCIS: No, I think, Roger, you pointed to it correctly. This is not an issue that is brand new for Canada. oh, okay then. so, the same thing is happening as has always happened. the only interesting thing about this article is trying to determine if it's motivated by the opposition party trying to score some points (like it usually is) or by the US trying to share a positive in response to all the "canadian tourism numbers are down" stories going around lately.

bfkwlfkjf

ELI5 - Canadians can just cross the border and get a job in the USA? No need for work visa? Is that by virtue of being Canadian citizens? What are the legals?

yawnxyz

that's what happens when your only industries are cooking oil, actual oil, and real estate

s0rce

Not really new, been going on for decades. With recent political changes I would have assumed it might have been getting better actually. I'm guilty, Canadian living in the SF Bay area.

MarxOk

It's the pay, it's always the pay. If our salaries were closer to the U.S. this wouldn't be happening.

jojobas

Should be completely dwarfed by everyone end their dog fleeing Trump's fascist wasteland to Canada right?

laughing_man

Today is full of evergreen headlines.

xyzzy_plugh

The not-so-top secret way to get rich as a Canadian new grad in tech is to get a job at a unicorn by way of TN status, hop around for ~5-10 years, possibly getting an H-1B, but never pursuing a greencard. Accumulate wealth by any means necessary. If you find yourself with nice RSUs or options, hang on to them or exercise them, respectively. When you're fed up move back to Canada and enjoy no exit tax and enjoy the step-up cost basis on all your assets. Sell all your RSUs and pay nearly zero capital gains. Use your imagination here. (If you are unlucky and only have losses, well, you'll never really be able to use them tax-wise.)

RickJWagner

I swear I read an article not long ago declaring the US was losing top talent to other locales. I suppose data could be used to justify whatever position and thus earn daily bread for the headline. Tomorrow there’ll need to be another story.

mafalda

As an immigrant to Canada, I've spent considerable time comparing the numbers and while it is fact that numbers will simply be bigger in the US, the direct number comparison suggests that the "brain drain" issue is a mix of tax burden from Canada and better US opportunity. The first thing to consider here is that Canadians are in an unique position to move to the US. They are more likely to have family, friends, travel for leisure and business, easier work visas (TN), Canadian universities are recognized in the US, and so on. Second thing is that for the people that have the means, moving early in life to the US might be the factor between affording the life you want with ease vs having to compromise. Many of my friends in tech that moved are saving 1.5x to 2.5x compared to the ones that stayed. So I don't see a way for Canada to not be a source of talent to the US market. But I also don't believe that is the most interesting question. The question that I believe matters most here from a society/economy perspective is: is Canada's economy providing the right incentives for innovation and entrepreneurship? From that perspective the first thing that needs to be addressed is that we can't compare only taxes rates and income. Canada has a very different tax system, where being able to maximize your TFSA and RRSP will probably set you up pretty well for retirement. Cost of housing is high, but cost of borrowing can be much lower than similar US mortgages. Canadian taxes also include healthcare that is more efficient (cost wise) than the American model. So while you can get rich faster in the US, the reality is that you will need a lot less income to achieve similar quality of life depending on the cities you are comparing. My personal notes for Vancouver, BC vs Seattle, WA concluded that for a family of 2. The gross income required to live a fair life that includes: - owning a decent property - be able to retire with no need to reduce cost of living - taking vacations and going out often - hedging health costs You are looking for around 200k CAD vs 250k USD of steady yearly income. Those incomes are very achievable in both places for people that are considered top talent and companies can provide such income locally. On the tax side, Canada could improve, but I don't believe that lowering taxes will bring much value. Where Canada seems to struggle is on the regulation side. Canada is aligned with the US, which means that when addressing the Canadian market, your business is most likely also able to easily address the US market. This means that you will probably be better of setting up your center of operations in the US and not in Canada. At the same time, big Canadian focused corporations operate mostly in an Oligopoly way. Smaller companies need to fight both regulatory requirements that didn't exist before and have a harder time getting the money they need to scale operations. Adopting European (and Asian) standards could severely improve competition as companies could more easily extend operations into Canada without having to also support the US market, while in the long term Canadian companies would be able to choose the regulations that give their products the access to the most appropriate markets.

johnnienaked

The cope about this "not being new" is pretty typical denial I'm glad to have left up there.

hiddenthrowaway

Obviously, a throwaway. Microsoft calls their Vancouver office "The Refugee Center"

smarm52

They can't be that smart if they're heading into the US now. Concerns about ICE hunting down "furiners" should be enough to give them pause; Especially those that are part of a visible minority.