A Kantian Critique of "Sorry" by Justin Bieber

hmokiguess

Great, now do Apologize by Timbaland from the lenses of Schopenhauer

cyanmagenta

Justin Bieber is a utilitarian rather than Kantian. From a UChicago economics view, he is behaving rationally.

BubbleRings

Funny. Take a simple pop song about apology and make an academic treatise on what a heartfelt apology looks like. On the other end of the spectrum would be to summarize it in the shortest form with the simplest words, instead of with many and multi-syllable words. How about this (not mine, I’ve heard this in addiction recovery rooms, where apologies and amends are often discussed): In the sentence “I’m sorry I did x, but you did y”, the word “but” means “disregard the above.”

henrydark

Song also proves Bieber is a dualist "cause I'm missing more than just your body" What else does she have that he misses?

shrubby

After spending most of today circling around maxims I appreciate the application. Though I must state that the pic almost had me closing the tab before reading. Here's another venting out, somewhere near Categorical Imperative https://kohlbergs7.org/epm/

wj

That brought to mind this examination of Taylor Swift's Shake it Off: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/taylor-swift-a-socratic-...

m-hodges

I would thoroughly enjoy an entire podcast of this genre. ... A Cartesian Critique of "Fireflies" by Owl City ... A Humean Critique of "I Gotta Feeling" by The Black Eyed Peas

kundi

Good. We can move to Bruno Mars now

stcg

Fun read! I love the depth in seemingly superficial texts. Sometimes I similarly ponder claims or questions in advertisements.

num42

Good article! Off topic, It reminds me of this: https://www.bensparks.co.uk/talk/the-sacred-geometry-of-chan...

therealjason

Aside from the other links in comments, any where to read more of this? I need more.

pipeline_peak

Neil Hagerty (Royal Trux, Pussy Galore) Talks Justin Bieber’s Purpose https://talkhouse.com/neil-hagerty-royal-trux-pussy-galore-t...

mwillis

This 3 minute song creates a fleeting portrait of a man, not necessarily Bieber, who we cannot know. The song captures the mindset of a character who, one might infer, cynically knows what he’s trying to do. It’s possible he has no interest in a heartfelt, meaningful apology. In fact, this character - who lives only within the song and the liminal world it creates - may be operating exactly to his own moral preference. We don’t know enough to say more. It’s like asking if a singer of “happy birthday” truly wishes their subject to be happy. In short, you Kant analyze pop music with confidence.

hliyan

Surprised this article didn't explain the categorical imperative before appealing to it. Here's my interpretation of it, although some would say that (4) is a utilitarian interpretation(even though it's globally utilitarian) and therefore it is not truly categorical. (1) We all know that doing what's best for oneself does not count as doing something "good" or "right". Even the worst psychopath or monster will do what is best for themselves. "What benefits me" is not a principle on which to decide how to act morally. (2) The most basic moral principle might be "do no harm", i.e. you are free to do whatever you want as long as you do not cause others harm. This is something that most normal human beings instinctively recognize as a valid way to decide between good and bad actions. This is the absolute minimum moral compass you must possess in order to participate in civilized society. (3) One level up is the golden rule, or "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" or treating others the same way you would want to be treated. This is generally recognized by many religions as the gold standard for what it means to be a good human being. (4) Kant goes one level further. He says, basically: "before you do something, ask yourself: if everyone else in the world did what you're about to do as a matter of course, will it make the world better or worse? If it makes the world worse, then don't do it". This is a very basic formulation of Kant's Categorical Imperative.

stonyrubbish

From a Hegelian perspective, the concept of the apology inherently is contradictory: for an apology before the act of harm has occurred is always "too early," yet an apology after the act has occurred is always, in some sense, "too late," ie, the harm has already been caused. We can see from this point that the apology is therefore never-on-time, always a spectre in the realm of human temporality. Also, I've never read Hegel (not that this disqualifies me from being a Hegelian.)

senshan

We can not attribute the moral image of the protagonist to Bieber himself. He is an artist, so he is describing an experience of life, perhaps stemming from the receiving end of a fake apology. Otherwise, it is a very good and thought-provoking article.

keane

Accidentally read this in Zizek’s voice, can imagine him delivering this in a recreated neon lit motel room set

syndacks

smells of tokens

TRiG_Ireland

> We cannot attribute any moral judgment to Bieber as a human being; we can only answer the moral question as posed in the song. As a semi-off-topic little rant, why do we always assume that pop singers are singing about themselves and their own experiences? Can a song, as a work of art, not have an independent existence, much as a novel may? Pop, rap, and maybe country songs are all now assumed to be about the artist themselves.

IshKebab

> “Is it too late to say sorry?” is actually not a moral question at all when viewed through a Kantian lens. The question in itself contains the answer: yes, it is too late to say sorry, not in the sense that has anything to do with the nature of time, but rather the form of the question itself shows that the song fundamentally misunderstands what an apology is. Further cementing my view that philosophy is 95% bullshit. The author really cannot imagine times when it might or might not be too late to say sorry? I think they fundamentally misunderstand what an apology is.